Horn Matters | A French Horn and Brass Site and Resource | John Ericson and Bruce Hembd

During my sabbatical semester from Arizona State I looked briefly at one of the horns I had worked on, how I could set it up as ascending third valve, and posted some brief impressions.

Immediately after the end of the sabbatical (spring semester of 2021) I was still working in the shop almost as much, as I had one more horn project horn started, that I now realize I have not yet described properly here (although briefly mentioned in this post)

A Yamaha conversion horn?

The idea with this one was to use an older design Yamaha single F and convert it to take crooks. At the time of the earlier post it was not done, and the photo there is with the crook of my Gumpert horn. I still had crooks to make specific to this horn, and I made two, one for F and one for G. (In the future I may also make an Eb crook, I have parts set aside, but it is too hot to work in the shop now).

Crooks?

The crooks seen here are from a Chinese natural horn, significantly modified. I knew going in that they had some major problem. On taking them apart I could see they both had no venturi! The first 2 inches or so, hidden under the visible tubing, were absolutely an acoustical nightmare. So what I did, having several random (and damaged) King single horn pipes on hand, was cut the end of those leadpipes off to mate perfectly with the end of the Chinese crooks. The result was that they both exceeded expectations, especially so the G crook (the F crook having a bit less good intonation).

The crooks are lacquered, as is the horn. I have not removed it at this point, I may later. About 90% of lacquer is present.

Ascending third valve?

What I could then do with the G crook and the G horn first valve slide I made earlier in the year was set this horn up as ascending third valve, a system popular in France back in the day. The setup on my horn involves stringing the third valve to rotate backwards. The horn stands in F, but has a G crook with air going through the third valve slide to lower the basic horn to F. Thus, when you push down the third valve, it shortens the horn by a whole step.

I have mostly had it set up in this manner for the past two months, and I must say this might be the most fun horn of the sabbatical horns to play.

How does it compare?

A first question is how does it compare to before modification? Yamaha single F horns are not bad, but with the modifications it plays more freely and has a more colorful tone.

I’ll have a separate post on overall comparisons of the four sabbatical project horns soon, but this one certainly has the best high range articulations and overall playing comfort of the set, when set up as ascending third valve.

I’m also entertained in my summer practice working with the alternate fingerings provided by this setup. Any high note that can involve the third valve in a fingering is very enhanced compared to a standard single F.

On the other hand, there is no fingering for Eb below the staff, and you can’t produce any notes lower than low A, which limits what music you can play. Those notes come up a lot! I’d like to make a better F crook for the horn at some point in the future, I even made the bending jig before I had to shut down the shop for the summer.

A pilot project

Another part of making this specific horn was that I was looking at it as a possible product — to make more of these at some future point. I think it has the potential to work very well as a crooked standard single F, I would just need a better crook taper to use as a starting point for the front end of the horn.

There are some specific design things unique to this conversion that I won’t share here, but I took things I learned from all the other sabbatical horns to get it to the point it is at right now. I believe it is a type of horn many would enjoy having the opportunity to play on. A topic for a future post as well.

UPDATE 2025: I actually as of now have reduced this horn to parts — but another of the project horns I do still use as ascending third valve, which I explain more clearly in this article. 

Continue to conclusion of the Sabbatical series

UPDATE 2026: Continue to this article to see how I reworked and upgraded this Yamaha conversion horn. 

As mentioned in the previous installment, I located (on eBay) the remains of a Geyer single F horn, minus the original bell (which had been used to restore a higher value Geyer double).

My guess is the horn body dates to roughly the 1940s. We don’t think of the legendary American horn maker Carl Geyer (1880-1973) for making student model horns, but that is what this is, built on the same general vintage design that was seen on the second build of the sabbatical, the Mirafone/Yamaha. The big, looped main slide puts the horn in F rather than in Eb (such as is seen on more typical student model single horns). So, while it was a student model horn, I think Carl Geyer was pretty hard-wired to build a high-quality instrument, with parts and design of the same quality as he used on his double horns.

I replaced the missing bell using the bell from the same King horn that had provided the valve section for the first build, and I had to replace the damaged leadpipe also (it had four holes in it, and even with those taped up and other repairs it was not a player) with a Yamaha single F leadpipe. I will keep the original pipe with the horn for comparison.

The Geyer body also had a number of issues to correct, including applying three patches to leaks, and I’m still watching another spot that might need a patch. This horn had some heavy damage at one point, and not all of it was repaired well, it was instead hidden somewhat with patches a fresh coat of clear lacquer. I stripped all that off and used all the Geyer parts I could, and love the overall look and design. Other than the bell and leadpipe, the only other non-Geyer parts are the ferrule at the joint between the bell tail and first branch (King) and the braces for the bell and leadpipe (Yamaha).

It was humbling to take apart and rebuild to playability a horn built by a legend of horn making. A skill revisited with this specific build was silver soldering a broken brace. As much as I could I tried to build it has he did, with the long tubing contacts in the same manner as he used.

While this horn could still benefit from a valve job, I am very happy with how all three of my sabbatical horns look and play. Each instrument was a wonderful project, their simple designs being suited my skill level and my goal of improving skills.

Besides constructing these three horns I also did repairs and minor alterations to several other horns, not documented in this series. Horn building this semester was very much a full-time job, and my skills have improved a great deal. The hands-on work in my garage shop was also an especially good way to spend those pandemic months.

[Very attentive readers might remember that I described in a prior post another planned sabbatical build, rebuilding a Yamaha single into a crooked single horn. That project was started and is still in progress, and that was actually the source horn for the leadpipe used on the Geyer. I have other repair/modification projects going but I am still hopeful to finish that horn also before summer heat kicks in, that one will be my “Yamaha conversion horn.” And I have parts that will eventually become another new instrument, likely similar to this Geyer.]

Reflecting on the three completed projects, it fascinates me how each horn has a very individual character. Each one has good and bad points in terms of playing qualities, especially in regard to good and bad notes. And the bad notes are all pretty good, don’t get me wrong, they all turned out well! But if you take a specific note such as written fourth line E, each horn is different in terms of the “F horn roll” on that note being felt easily or minimally. I tend to think the Geyer is the best playing overall, but that may in part be because it is new to me. The Mirafone bell horn might have the best sound, I need to play them all for listeners in a good space to know for sure.

I look forward to applying my horn building skills to modern horn designs as part of future creative activity. Maybe at some future time I will try to make a natural horn or two. But for now, it won’t be long until I have to be closing up my shop. It is in my garage, and as Arizona temperatures get higher it will be less and less usable, and not at all usable really when the overnight lows are over 80! Which is good, as I can get back to preparing over the summer for what I hope will be a very robust year of in-person horn teaching and playing for 2021-22!

UPDATE 2024: I further rebuilt the Geyer! Be sure to see the updated horn here. 

Return to the beginning of the Sabbatical Series

I had some options for a final major project, and then was lucky to locate the body of a vintage Geyer single horn of similar design to my Mirafone/Yamaha combo that turned out so well (more here).

The body of this horn is a Geyer, as in made by the legendary horn maker Carl Geyer himself (more here). What happened to this horn prior to my ownership is fairly clear. The most recent thing to happen was the bell was removed (!) to use to restore another Geyer horn. Although the remains were an eBay purchase and have no Geyer markings, I know the seller in real life as well, and with further comparison with photos of Geyer horns I feel very certain this body is in fact the work of Geyer.

Even when it had the bell I believe it was unplayable, the lead pipe was a mess with patches and large dents, and I spotted right away two major leaks in the horn body and some suspect repairs.

My original project of the semester (more here) involved rebuilding an older project of mine with a new valve section from a King single Bb. That bell was available for this project, and fortunately it will fit the Geyer body with minimal modification! So that is the good news. The bad news is after taking apart the Geyer body to do dent work it needs at least 5 (!) patches, including two on valve knuckles, and it must have been damaged pretty heavily and then repaired and lacquered. I still have to take the valve slides off the first and third valves, and I bet there is even more damage I have not found yet.

As of now I have stripped the lacquer on the bell and the horn body, and I’ve completed most of my dent work, to the level I can do — not perfect, with a bit of visible “character” in the dented areas, but acoustically sound. The next step is working on the patches and fitting parts back together. After the body is done I’ll consider lead pipe options.

Still, I’m glad I can put this horn back together. I will follow the design of the original build as closely as I can, and I’m excited to see how it turns out. There are still some key Geyer parts here, made by a master! And looking at the calendar this should be the last major part of my sabbatical project. More soon.

Continue to Finale of Sabbatical Series